Knowing your opponent (long)

Hooner
Jun 3, 2007
Sorry it's a bit long, to me writing (espically after losing money in poker) is therapeutic.
Sometimes lessons can cost you a ton of money. Luckily this one only costed me $8.00 and some bruised pride.
In online poker where you can't phyiscally see the person in front of you, meaning you can't look for tells, it is vital to your game that you know how your opponent plays poker. The mistake of many amateur online players is that they don't change up their playing style. With this being said, if you know how your opponents play, your success at the table will dramatically increase.
If you don't know how they play, it could get you into trouble. And thus my sad tale begins.
I love online small stakes poker so one night before bed I got on my favorite real money site and threw $5.00 down on a .5/.10 cent NL Holdem table. The table was pretty passive except for one man who we will call Fishface. Fishface was up to $15.00 dollars and was running the table. Every time he raised, people would fold. It seemed like he was winning every pot he played.
Now, one of my weaknesses in poker is to find the most aggressive person at the table and beat them down for principle's sake. So I was going to declare war on Fishface, but first I wanted to sit back a bit and see how he played.
After a few rounds, I noticed that Fishface would raise with any two cards EVERY TIME the dealer button was on him. I can't believe that no one else saw this! Also, he would always heavy bet preturn to try and push people out of the pot. That was enough info for me. It was time to tangle with the Fishface.
It didn't take long before Fishface and I locked horns. I was the big blind and had A8 of diamonds. Fishface was the dealer and sure enough, he raised the 10 cent blind to 50 cents. The last few times he did this, he raised in position with 89 offsuit, 46 suited, and K7 offsuit. If that was the case this time, I would have him dominated.
I called his bet. We were the only ones in the hand. The flop came up As 7s 3d. He bet $1.10, the exact amount that was in the pot. It seemed like every time he was first to act with a bad hand, he would bet the pot amount to try and scare people away. I had a pair of aces so I wasn't going anywhere. I called.
The turn was a jack of diamonds which game my a nut flush draw. Before he acted, I said to myself, "If he checks, he's scared and he doesn't have much." Sure enough, he checked. I bet out another dollar and to my surprise, he called.
The river was a 2s, which meant there were 3 spades on the board. Fishface went allin. I thought about it for a bit. It's possible that he had a flush but then again, he could be trying to again scare me out of the pot. So I asked myself a few questions:
Did he play his typical way before the flop? Yes, which means he could have ANYTHING.
Did he try to buy the pot postflop and then check the turn? Yes, which means he was scared that I had a better hand.
So, could this mean that he's just trying to scare me again? Yes! I only had a pair of aces, but I wanted to expose, dominate, humiliate, crush, and rob Fishface. I called.
He turned over K2 of spades, giving him a flush. I slapped myself as I watched my mountain of coins get dragged away. I completely played this hand like a fish and went broke because of it.
I checked the history of the past several hands Fishface played, although he bet very aggressive and liked to scare people, there was one thing I didn't realize, and that was Fishface was smart. Smart enough to not go all in on a bluff against a guy who was betting like he had something. Sure he was aggressive, but the only times he put a lot of money in on the turn and river was when he had a legitimately good hand. He wasn't about to bluff allin, it wasn't his style. And if I would have been watching him play a little closer, I would have realized that as soon as he moved all in, he had a great hand and I should have folded.
I guess the old saying is true: Poker takes minutes to learn and a lifetime to master.
3,327
Sometimes lessons can cost you a ton of money. Luckily this one only costed me $8.00 and some bruised pride.
In online poker where you can't phyiscally see the person in front of you, meaning you can't look for tells, it is vital to your game that you know how your opponent plays poker. The mistake of many amateur online players is that they don't change up their playing style. With this being said, if you know how your opponents play, your success at the table will dramatically increase.
If you don't know how they play, it could get you into trouble. And thus my sad tale begins.
I love online small stakes poker so one night before bed I got on my favorite real money site and threw $5.00 down on a .5/.10 cent NL Holdem table. The table was pretty passive except for one man who we will call Fishface. Fishface was up to $15.00 dollars and was running the table. Every time he raised, people would fold. It seemed like he was winning every pot he played.
Now, one of my weaknesses in poker is to find the most aggressive person at the table and beat them down for principle's sake. So I was going to declare war on Fishface, but first I wanted to sit back a bit and see how he played.
After a few rounds, I noticed that Fishface would raise with any two cards EVERY TIME the dealer button was on him. I can't believe that no one else saw this! Also, he would always heavy bet preturn to try and push people out of the pot. That was enough info for me. It was time to tangle with the Fishface.
It didn't take long before Fishface and I locked horns. I was the big blind and had A8 of diamonds. Fishface was the dealer and sure enough, he raised the 10 cent blind to 50 cents. The last few times he did this, he raised in position with 89 offsuit, 46 suited, and K7 offsuit. If that was the case this time, I would have him dominated.
I called his bet. We were the only ones in the hand. The flop came up As 7s 3d. He bet $1.10, the exact amount that was in the pot. It seemed like every time he was first to act with a bad hand, he would bet the pot amount to try and scare people away. I had a pair of aces so I wasn't going anywhere. I called.
The turn was a jack of diamonds which game my a nut flush draw. Before he acted, I said to myself, "If he checks, he's scared and he doesn't have much." Sure enough, he checked. I bet out another dollar and to my surprise, he called.
The river was a 2s, which meant there were 3 spades on the board. Fishface went allin. I thought about it for a bit. It's possible that he had a flush but then again, he could be trying to again scare me out of the pot. So I asked myself a few questions:
Did he play his typical way before the flop? Yes, which means he could have ANYTHING.
Did he try to buy the pot postflop and then check the turn? Yes, which means he was scared that I had a better hand.
So, could this mean that he's just trying to scare me again? Yes! I only had a pair of aces, but I wanted to expose, dominate, humiliate, crush, and rob Fishface. I called.
He turned over K2 of spades, giving him a flush. I slapped myself as I watched my mountain of coins get dragged away. I completely played this hand like a fish and went broke because of it.
I checked the history of the past several hands Fishface played, although he bet very aggressive and liked to scare people, there was one thing I didn't realize, and that was Fishface was smart. Smart enough to not go all in on a bluff against a guy who was betting like he had something. Sure he was aggressive, but the only times he put a lot of money in on the turn and river was when he had a legitimately good hand. He wasn't about to bluff allin, it wasn't his style. And if I would have been watching him play a little closer, I would have realized that as soon as he moved all in, he had a great hand and I should have folded.
I guess the old saying is true: Poker takes minutes to learn and a lifetime to master.

nuclearblast
Sep 15, 2007
A guy who raise a lot is not always a fish.When I play real cash online I\'ll raise almost 50% of the time while being in the 2 last position. I\'m not a crazy fish and I do make good money. I mean if you raise lets say 3x BB and 50% of the time your stealing the blind this is a really good play. If the guy call you still have a chance to hit something....if he reraise and you have nothing you just fold. And when you have a really big hand you\'ll make more money out of it because people will think you go with anything. This is how the greatest players are playing.

DWarrior
Sep 15, 2007
I love how you call his raise from BB and yet are last to act on every subsequent street.

Blodassassin
Sep 17, 2007
sounds like your read him as a loose argessive maniac only to get yourself up against a tight agressing shark

d0gbackwards
Nov 13, 2007
A guy who raise a lot is not always a fish.When I play real cash online I\'ll raise almost 50% of the time while being in the 2 last position. I\'m not a crazy fish and I do make good money. I mean if you raise lets say 3x BB and 50% of the time your stealing the blind this is a really good play. If the guy call you still have a chance to hit something....if he reraise and you have nothing you just fold. And when you have a really big hand you\'ll make more money out of it because people will think you go with anything. This is how the greatest players are playing.
This is pretty much how i play cash tables. I was taught if you can call, you can raise. If i play a hand then most likely i will call that hand, if i can call a hand, means my hand is ok or good, i should raise. You keep all your opponents on their back heels always backing off you and wondering what you have.
Also keeps a lot of crazy dumb hands out of your CASH pot. I don't play like most other people who will call to see the flop. I don't anticipate the flop, i anticipate the turn and how i'm set up for the river. Example:
If i play my hand, most likely i'll raise, reguardless what i have. At the same time if i'm in front i'll bet on the flop and whoever has the hand if it isn't me will most likely call or if someone is before me they'll check to me. So with one raise and bet, i make it all the way to to the turn reguardless what hand i have. Sets up my hand to look stronger than what it is. Now at the turn i can make my decision if i want to keep pushing the bet or if i want to simply fold because i didn't catch my cards or have it checked out because i've been betting the whole time. Sets up for more people to check at the turn and make it all the way to the river.
You shouldn't play hands that you don't feel like you'll play all the way through.. Sure if something flops that kills your hand completely you fold, but majority of hands played from the jump, you play through the end in big money all in poker.
Just my 2 cents, or 2 chips.....
the d0g

GoldStubb
Nov 13, 2007
"So with one raise and bet, i make it all the way to to the turn reguardless what hand i have. Sets up my hand to look stronger than what it is."
I disagree with this statement, Dog. Constant preflop raising makes your hand appear MUCH weaker to the opponent than a more conservative approach.
I disagree with this statement, Dog. Constant preflop raising makes your hand appear MUCH weaker to the opponent than a more conservative approach.

PokerRuler
Jan 15, 2008
Lesson to be learned is watch the semi bluff. He bets at the pot trying to end the hand and buy it and if he does get called he still has good outs To start off.
So to say his 1.10 bet on the flop is great from him, at this point you already got to use your deduction and reasoning which is good. At this point ask yourself what range of hands on would he have here, he probably does not have an ace from previous hands you have seen and his positional play with any 2. This means from what have seen for a bet like this he must have 2 spades in the hole and he is drawing or he hit trips and is not slow playing them, possibly two pair or ace better kicker, but not likely from what you already noted. You have ace with mid kick and might consider a re raise right there to end the hand, the flop is often the best place to steal a hand or end a hand. The problem with this is that if he does call your re raise off the flop your pot committed and need to jam it all in on the turn leaving him a decision to call a 2.30 bet into a 7.80 (5.50 pot + your 2.30 bet) giving over 3/1 pot odds which may or may not depending on the player enough to call it should be but some may not take your bet into account which leaves am option for this not willing to go all out on a flush draw a fold, player subjective.
So with the last paragraph hypothetical and subjective to others here is a more objective thing on exactly How you played it though.
I will throw this at you to hopefully allow you to size your bets better. on the turn when you see him check and read it weak you are correct, so do not give him any option to stay in there. If you now have a semi nut hand and the nut pair so far then make him pay it your bet shows semi weakness, like you got something but not so sure or even the same flush draw he has and he knows it has to be lower if that is true. So betting $1 and a smaller bet then what he bet off the flop is wrong. Here you have to think from what he did sure he will call a bet and is not playing it like a .05/.10 table anymore he has to much invested to give it up to a $1 bet, and when you bet $1 you are giving him odds to win 3.30 pot for $1 so 3.30/1 odds and he has about 4/1 chance to hit is card that gives him reason to call.
So instead I would say that you want to make a pot sized bet on the turn to not give him those odds to call. Both the way you played it and the way you could play it calls for your whole stack to be involved. You have to be willing to do that, however this way you can at the end of the hand have the result of having money won and more money in your account and maybe next time he will not try to steal on your blind.
If you do get a call at least you can say that you played it your best and now get to name someone a donkey for playing past reason.
Good luck and keep your eye out to look for that situation and make it work for you next time.
So to say his 1.10 bet on the flop is great from him, at this point you already got to use your deduction and reasoning which is good. At this point ask yourself what range of hands on would he have here, he probably does not have an ace from previous hands you have seen and his positional play with any 2. This means from what have seen for a bet like this he must have 2 spades in the hole and he is drawing or he hit trips and is not slow playing them, possibly two pair or ace better kicker, but not likely from what you already noted. You have ace with mid kick and might consider a re raise right there to end the hand, the flop is often the best place to steal a hand or end a hand. The problem with this is that if he does call your re raise off the flop your pot committed and need to jam it all in on the turn leaving him a decision to call a 2.30 bet into a 7.80 (5.50 pot + your 2.30 bet) giving over 3/1 pot odds which may or may not depending on the player enough to call it should be but some may not take your bet into account which leaves am option for this not willing to go all out on a flush draw a fold, player subjective.
So with the last paragraph hypothetical and subjective to others here is a more objective thing on exactly How you played it though.
I will throw this at you to hopefully allow you to size your bets better. on the turn when you see him check and read it weak you are correct, so do not give him any option to stay in there. If you now have a semi nut hand and the nut pair so far then make him pay it your bet shows semi weakness, like you got something but not so sure or even the same flush draw he has and he knows it has to be lower if that is true. So betting $1 and a smaller bet then what he bet off the flop is wrong. Here you have to think from what he did sure he will call a bet and is not playing it like a .05/.10 table anymore he has to much invested to give it up to a $1 bet, and when you bet $1 you are giving him odds to win 3.30 pot for $1 so 3.30/1 odds and he has about 4/1 chance to hit is card that gives him reason to call.
So instead I would say that you want to make a pot sized bet on the turn to not give him those odds to call. Both the way you played it and the way you could play it calls for your whole stack to be involved. You have to be willing to do that, however this way you can at the end of the hand have the result of having money won and more money in your account and maybe next time he will not try to steal on your blind.
If you do get a call at least you can say that you played it your best and now get to name someone a donkey for playing past reason.
Good luck and keep your eye out to look for that situation and make it work for you next time.

Wiles
Jan 18, 2008
I have a different take on how I play people like this in cash games compared to tournament style.
I would have raised him pre flop and hammered him on the flop. This in turn takes a guy who like to apply pressure and puts the pressure squarely on him instead of you.
You also have to remember someone who plays like a maniac can also have a hand once in a while. Odds are in your favor that he doesn't, but you have to calculate that there is a chance he actually has the better hand once in a while. If you forget this it can and will cost you money.
I would have raised him pre flop and hammered him on the flop. This in turn takes a guy who like to apply pressure and puts the pressure squarely on him instead of you.
You also have to remember someone who plays like a maniac can also have a hand once in a while. Odds are in your favor that he doesn't, but you have to calculate that there is a chance he actually has the better hand once in a while. If you forget this it can and will cost you money.